1 00:00:22,519 --> 00:00:09,090 welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast 2 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:25,349 hello and welcome to the skeptic zone 3 00:00:34,020 --> 00:00:29,970 episode number 285 for the sixth of 4 00:00:35,819 --> 00:00:34,030 april 2014 Richard Saunders here with 5 00:00:37,619 --> 00:00:35,829 you from Sydney Australia where if I 6 00:00:40,140 --> 00:00:37,629 listen out the door listen out the 7 00:00:45,030 --> 00:00:40,150 window it's still raining well we did 8 00:00:47,670 --> 00:00:45,040 have some time some days of sunny hot 9 00:00:49,770 --> 00:00:47,680 weather but now the rain has come back 10 00:00:52,410 --> 00:00:49,780 and for those of you in Sydney the 11 00:00:56,220 --> 00:00:52,420 seven-day forecast Monday possible 12 00:00:59,610 --> 00:00:56,230 shower minimum 18 maximum 23 Tuesday 13 00:01:02,490 --> 00:00:59,620 gladly minimum 18 maximum 24 Wednesday 14 00:01:04,290 --> 00:01:02,500 possible shower minimal 18 but y'all go 15 00:01:06,990 --> 00:01:04,300 on later but I don't think you want to 16 00:01:08,370 --> 00:01:07,000 hear the the weather forecast I think 17 00:01:10,230 --> 00:01:08,380 you want to hear what's coming up on 18 00:01:12,930 --> 00:01:10,240 this week's episode of the skeptic zone 19 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:12,940 and we travel to sunny Canada sunny 20 00:01:19,050 --> 00:01:15,490 sometimes Canada we speak to Michael 21 00:01:22,050 --> 00:01:19,060 crews from bad science watch now these 22 00:01:24,540 --> 00:01:22,060 are the people in Canada who watch for 23 00:01:26,490 --> 00:01:24,550 bad science that's why it's called bad 24 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:26,500 science watching Canada sort of makes 25 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:29,530 sense when you think about it Michael's 26 00:01:34,770 --> 00:01:30,610 going to tell us about what they're up 27 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:34,780 to and their investigations into aspects 28 00:01:42,690 --> 00:01:38,530 of chinese traditional medicine after 29 00:01:44,479 --> 00:01:42,700 that it's astrology yes astrology from 30 00:01:47,910 --> 00:01:44,489 the pages of the skeptic magazine 31 00:01:50,729 --> 00:01:47,920 doesn't make much sense does it well we 32 00:01:52,109 --> 00:01:50,739 have a your starts for April coming up 33 00:01:54,869 --> 00:01:52,119 after that for a little bit of light 34 00:01:56,580 --> 00:01:54,879 relief and after your starts for April 35 00:01:58,380 --> 00:01:56,590 it's a weakened science from our friends 36 00:02:01,619 --> 00:01:58,390 at the Royal Institution of Australia 37 00:02:03,859 --> 00:02:01,629 and then to round off the episode a few 38 00:02:07,859 --> 00:02:03,869 interviews I conducted at the last 39 00:02:09,690 --> 00:02:07,869 Sydney skeptics in the pub with some 40 00:02:11,160 --> 00:02:09,700 interesting information for those of you 41 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:11,170 in the sydney area and the blue 42 00:02:17,070 --> 00:02:14,170 mountains area about other skeptical and 43 00:02:20,100 --> 00:02:17,080 philosophical groups that get together 44 00:02:23,040 --> 00:02:20,110 to meet and before we get into the show 45 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:23,050 a couple of notes from me oh joy oh joy 46 00:02:29,370 --> 00:02:26,010 I noticed that world homeopathy 47 00:02:29,700 --> 00:02:29,380 awareness week is coming up the 10th to 48 00:02:31,920 --> 00:02:29,710 the sea 49 00:02:35,790 --> 00:02:31,930 see the vapor and their theme this year 50 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:35,800 is homeopathy for men's health gee 51 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:40,450 thanks homeopathy and a big fat to the 52 00:02:48,450 --> 00:02:44,410 better health channel right ww better 53 00:02:50,700 --> 00:02:48,460 health VG ova you yes it's involved with 54 00:02:53,250 --> 00:02:50,710 the victorian state government they're 55 00:02:58,260 --> 00:02:53,260 actually publicizing world homeopathy 56 00:03:00,630 --> 00:02:58,270 week her description this year's theme 57 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:00,640 for world homeopathy Awareness Week from 58 00:03:04,890 --> 00:03:02,770 the 10 to the 16th of April is men's 59 00:03:07,700 --> 00:03:04,900 health and it mentions a few of the 60 00:03:14,990 --> 00:03:07,710 things they're looking at including 61 00:03:18,630 --> 00:03:15,000 including prostate cancer good heavens 62 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:18,640 what on earth are you thinking better 63 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:21,130 health channel at better health Vic 64 00:03:28,130 --> 00:03:24,730 you've done a you publicizing homeopathy 65 00:03:34,350 --> 00:03:28,140 and mentioning it in relation to 66 00:03:36,900 --> 00:03:34,360 prostate cancer you numpties you might 67 00:03:39,660 --> 00:03:36,910 want to go to Twitter and express your 68 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:39,670 frustration and if you want to do that 69 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:43,570 that would a handle is at better health 70 00:03:51,110 --> 00:03:48,610 gov hmm but in better news better 71 00:03:54,750 --> 00:03:51,120 announcements those people in Canberra 72 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:54,760 yeah Australia's capital you lucky 73 00:03:59,220 --> 00:03:56,890 people you get to go to the Canberra 74 00:04:03,390 --> 00:03:59,230 skeptics events and I notice there's one 75 00:04:06,330 --> 00:04:03,400 coming up liquid fuel security it says 76 00:04:10,380 --> 00:04:06,340 she'll be right a talk by Air Vice 77 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:10,390 Marshal retired John Blackburn now this 78 00:04:14,910 --> 00:04:11,890 is only one in a long line of great 79 00:04:16,530 --> 00:04:14,920 talks that you can enjoy with the 80 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:16,540 Canberra skeptics the best thing to do 81 00:04:22,890 --> 00:04:21,130 is to go to ww chembra skeptics or geoau 82 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:22,900 you can actually sign up for their 83 00:04:27,870 --> 00:04:25,930 newsletter if you're in the area and you 84 00:04:31,770 --> 00:04:27,880 won't miss out on one of these excellent 85 00:04:33,990 --> 00:04:31,780 talks again another quick shout out to 86 00:04:35,820 --> 00:04:34,000 the National Geographic Channel thank 87 00:04:37,770 --> 00:04:35,830 you to the Australian national 88 00:04:39,780 --> 00:04:37,780 geographic channel in particular for 89 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:39,790 supplying me with cosmos packs and I 90 00:04:43,439 --> 00:04:42,010 hope everybody around the world is 91 00:04:46,260 --> 00:04:43,449 enjoying this wonderful 92 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:46,270 new series of Cosmos well that's all 93 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:47,650 from me at the moment I'm going to run 94 00:04:53,209 --> 00:04:49,330 downstairs and see if I've got any good 95 00:04:56,999 --> 00:04:53,219 dammmm japanese food about the house 96 00:04:59,700 --> 00:04:57,009 miso soup I quite like miso soup pickled 97 00:05:01,890 --> 00:04:59,710 ginger that's pretty yummy it's all 98 00:05:04,079 --> 00:05:01,900 pretty good sushi and sashimi and all 99 00:05:05,999 --> 00:05:04,089 that sort of stuff I'll see what I can 100 00:05:08,700 --> 00:05:06,009 find i'll see what i can find why I'm 101 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:08,710 doing that I hope you enjoy the skeptic 102 00:05:32,689 --> 00:05:30,860 it's been a long cold with the folks it 103 00:05:34,309 --> 00:05:32,699 really has it really has especially who 104 00:05:36,529 --> 00:05:34,319 those people living in the wonderful 105 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:36,539 country of canada canada which was my 106 00:05:40,790 --> 00:05:38,370 home from nineteen sixty eight to 107 00:05:42,589 --> 00:05:40,800 nineteen sixty-nine i remembered well no 108 00:05:44,749 --> 00:05:42,599 i don't i was too young but never mind 109 00:05:46,909 --> 00:05:44,759 about that canada is full of famous 110 00:05:48,559 --> 00:05:46,919 people famous people of left canada i'm 111 00:05:50,930 --> 00:05:48,569 thinking of I oh I don't know Donald 112 00:05:52,969 --> 00:05:50,940 Sutherland William Shatner Paul Shaffer 113 00:05:55,670 --> 00:05:52,979 and a host of other famous Canadians and 114 00:05:58,969 --> 00:05:55,680 of course a very famous Canyon is on the 115 00:06:01,999 --> 00:05:58,979 line with me right now from Toronto it's 116 00:06:04,189 --> 00:06:02,009 michael cruz from bad science watch 117 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:04,199 hello Michael hello Richard I'm going to 118 00:06:09,589 --> 00:06:05,130 have to try to live up to that 119 00:06:14,810 --> 00:06:09,599 introduction I'll do my best I do have 120 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:14,820 very very slight fleeting fleeting 121 00:06:18,439 --> 00:06:16,530 memories of Canada when I was just at 122 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:18,449 just a little kid and I remember the 123 00:06:23,540 --> 00:06:21,210 snow that's what I really struggling the 124 00:06:25,730 --> 00:06:23,550 huge snow drifts and I understand that 125 00:06:28,339 --> 00:06:25,740 Spring has come back to Canada at last 126 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:28,349 Oh finally it's been an interminable it 127 00:06:33,230 --> 00:06:30,330 seems months and months now we've had 128 00:06:35,050 --> 00:06:33,240 just heaps of snow and even in Toronto 129 00:06:37,430 --> 00:06:35,060 Toronto has tended tends to be a bit 130 00:06:39,620 --> 00:06:37,440 milder than you were in Saskatchewan I 131 00:06:41,330 --> 00:06:39,630 think weren't you I was it I was in the 132 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:41,340 Saskatchewan indeed yes that was that's 133 00:06:46,580 --> 00:06:43,530 quite um that's quite a heavily laden 134 00:06:49,670 --> 00:06:46,590 area for snow yes sadly it's rano is 135 00:06:51,850 --> 00:06:49,680 usually whining about you know minus 10 136 00:06:54,499 --> 00:06:51,860 degrees and it's minus 50 Odin and 137 00:06:57,649 --> 00:06:54,509 Saskatchewan but um no finally spring is 138 00:06:59,390 --> 00:06:57,659 coming we are just celebrating sounds 139 00:07:01,520 --> 00:06:59,400 good I wish I could be there to 140 00:07:02,959 --> 00:07:01,530 celebrate it with you but to be honest 141 00:07:06,529 --> 00:07:02,969 i'm looking forward to winter because 142 00:07:08,749 --> 00:07:06,539 we've had a particularly humid hot 143 00:07:11,029 --> 00:07:08,759 summer with lots of humidity and 144 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:11,039 moisture and humidity and I'm sick of it 145 00:07:16,719 --> 00:07:14,250 so I'll swap you yes I understand I take 146 00:07:19,249 --> 00:07:16,729 it I take a bit of humidity right now 147 00:07:20,899 --> 00:07:19,259 nevermind let's get on to more important 148 00:07:23,390 --> 00:07:20,909 matters of course all right now we've 149 00:07:25,550 --> 00:07:23,400 been running promotions for bad science 150 00:07:27,830 --> 00:07:25,560 watch on the skeptic zone for all of two 151 00:07:31,010 --> 00:07:27,840 years now or so and that in that area 152 00:07:33,140 --> 00:07:31,020 what can you tell us about bad science 153 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:33,150 watch how's it going lately it's going 154 00:07:34,970 --> 00:07:34,650 very well we've been very busy over the 155 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:34,980 past 156 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:36,570 year sort of ramping up our project 157 00:07:41,990 --> 00:07:39,210 efforts it's of course we're all 158 00:07:43,430 --> 00:07:42,000 completely volunteer organization we've 159 00:07:46,220 --> 00:07:43,440 been trying our best to sort of keep up 160 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:46,230 with demand as it were as you know you 161 00:07:51,470 --> 00:07:48,090 can another just like any other place as 162 00:07:53,180 --> 00:07:51,480 a lot of a lot of fights we need to to 163 00:07:56,030 --> 00:07:53,190 confront over a lot of fights need to 164 00:07:57,860 --> 00:07:56,040 take on to to confront bad science 165 00:08:00,830 --> 00:07:57,870 certainly and certainly bad advertising 166 00:08:02,450 --> 00:08:00,840 and and the misuse of science for 167 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:02,460 people's gain so we've been very busy 168 00:08:08,900 --> 00:08:04,530 over the last couple years focusing 169 00:08:11,990 --> 00:08:08,910 mostly on science and public policy and 170 00:08:14,740 --> 00:08:12,000 one of our latest projects was was just 171 00:08:17,060 --> 00:08:14,750 such a thing when we're taking on a new 172 00:08:20,150 --> 00:08:17,070 new public consultation from Health 173 00:08:22,190 --> 00:08:20,160 Canada now this is I guess you're 174 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:22,200 referring to something that caught my 175 00:08:28,970 --> 00:08:26,010 attention last week or not not very long 176 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:28,980 ago anyway via a media release and this 177 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:31,770 is all about the health calendar 178 00:08:38,810 --> 00:08:35,490 ignoring evidence of harm from Chinese 179 00:08:43,030 --> 00:08:38,820 medicines yeah we we have last year we 180 00:08:46,820 --> 00:08:43,040 sort of one of the major impetus for our 181 00:08:48,890 --> 00:08:46,830 development was to to take on my new 182 00:08:52,730 --> 00:08:48,900 policy from from Health Canada which is 183 00:08:56,090 --> 00:08:52,740 our national health service that does 184 00:08:57,650 --> 00:08:56,100 mostly it's a regulator mostly and they 185 00:08:59,090 --> 00:08:57,660 have a new David Department called the 186 00:09:02,080 --> 00:08:59,100 natural health products Directorate 187 00:09:06,580 --> 00:09:02,090 which was set up to to manage 188 00:09:09,110 --> 00:09:06,590 non-pharmaceutical but non-food items 189 00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:09,120 and it's got a separate kind of 190 00:09:12,470 --> 00:09:10,650 framework for regulation for these 191 00:09:15,170 --> 00:09:12,480 products separate from pharmaceuticals 192 00:09:17,690 --> 00:09:15,180 and has its own kind of way of 193 00:09:19,670 --> 00:09:17,700 approaching the regulatory of the 194 00:09:22,070 --> 00:09:19,680 licensing of these products and these 195 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:22,080 these range from herbal medicines and 196 00:09:26,900 --> 00:09:25,050 homeopathy to yes traditional Chinese 197 00:09:28,970 --> 00:09:26,910 medicines consider herbal medicines as 198 00:09:31,690 --> 00:09:28,980 well as things like shampoo and other 199 00:09:33,860 --> 00:09:31,700 kind of personal health care products 200 00:09:38,300 --> 00:09:33,870 and one of the problems that we 201 00:09:42,500 --> 00:09:38,310 identified is that they really attempted 202 00:09:45,070 --> 00:09:42,510 to streamline the process of approval we 203 00:09:47,780 --> 00:09:45,080 think because of pressure from the 204 00:09:48,980 --> 00:09:47,790 manufacturers to sort of allow them to 205 00:09:52,439 --> 00:09:48,990 enter the market quick 206 00:09:54,900 --> 00:09:52,449 and they have currently over 60,000 207 00:09:57,540 --> 00:09:54,910 products licensed which is an incredible 208 00:09:59,550 --> 00:09:57,550 amount they were only set up in 1997 and 209 00:10:01,889 --> 00:09:59,560 really only got going in 2004 so they've 210 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:01,899 been extremely busy but the problem with 211 00:10:07,110 --> 00:10:03,610 licensing so many products is that the 212 00:10:11,189 --> 00:10:07,120 the quality of the assessments has 213 00:10:12,750 --> 00:10:11,199 really we feel gone down in the last few 214 00:10:15,420 --> 00:10:12,760 years especially with the rollout of a 215 00:10:18,629 --> 00:10:15,430 new program that happened a couple years 216 00:10:20,310 --> 00:10:18,639 ago called the pathway that to licensing 217 00:10:22,650 --> 00:10:20,320 which sort of tells the entire story 218 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:22,660 right they're not really concerned we 219 00:10:26,100 --> 00:10:24,130 feel about protecting the public and 220 00:10:29,009 --> 00:10:26,110 more about getting helping manufacturers 221 00:10:30,660 --> 00:10:29,019 getting their products to market one of 222 00:10:33,470 --> 00:10:30,670 the ways they do this is by producing 223 00:10:36,509 --> 00:10:33,480 what are called monographs which are 224 00:10:38,819 --> 00:10:36,519 sort of outlines what you can say but 225 00:10:41,009 --> 00:10:38,829 your product and its indication dosing 226 00:10:43,410 --> 00:10:41,019 and and and the ingredients it contains 227 00:10:45,930 --> 00:10:43,420 and if you follow that kind of recipe 228 00:10:47,850 --> 00:10:45,940 then you'll get a much quicker approval 229 00:10:50,129 --> 00:10:47,860 of your product and one such monograph 230 00:10:52,530 --> 00:10:50,139 recently was one for traditional chinese 231 00:10:53,910 --> 00:10:52,540 medicine ingredients so traditional 232 00:10:55,829 --> 00:10:53,920 Chinese medicine is a whole system of 233 00:10:57,860 --> 00:10:55,839 medicine requiring you know diagnosis 234 00:11:00,420 --> 00:10:57,870 and very specific and sometimes odd 235 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:00,430 methods for that diagnosis but one of 236 00:11:04,139 --> 00:11:01,569 the things that Health Canada regulates 237 00:11:06,150 --> 00:11:04,149 as the actual ingredients used by 238 00:11:08,579 --> 00:11:06,160 traditional Chinese practitioners and 239 00:11:10,769 --> 00:11:08,589 others like natural paths and sometimes 240 00:11:13,740 --> 00:11:10,779 chiropractors and herbalists and things 241 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:13,750 like that and so we looked at this 242 00:11:19,680 --> 00:11:18,010 monograph and really took issue with it 243 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:19,690 it has most of these monographs have 244 00:11:27,090 --> 00:11:23,050 about one maybe two ingredients or they 245 00:11:29,730 --> 00:11:27,100 have one one genus and several species 246 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:29,740 of a plant much like let's say echinacea 247 00:11:32,910 --> 00:11:31,569 so there's three or four species of 248 00:11:35,220 --> 00:11:32,920 echinacea and they've got those all in 249 00:11:38,639 --> 00:11:35,230 one monograph this monograph had well 250 00:11:41,220 --> 00:11:38,649 over 400 ingredients on it are close to 251 00:11:44,309 --> 00:11:41,230 100 ingredients so it was a real kind of 252 00:11:47,100 --> 00:11:44,319 departure from their usual their usual 253 00:11:49,319 --> 00:11:47,110 approach so that was a red flag for us 254 00:11:50,540 --> 00:11:49,329 and we knew we had to comment absolutely 255 00:11:53,220 --> 00:11:50,550 and you know it's strange as you're 256 00:11:55,769 --> 00:11:53,230 telling me about this I can't help that 257 00:11:58,400 --> 00:11:55,779 think of our own therapeutics Goods 258 00:12:01,139 --> 00:11:58,410 Administration and in this country and 259 00:12:02,170 --> 00:12:01,149 you may be familiar with this I'm not 260 00:12:06,790 --> 00:12:02,180 sure we 261 00:12:08,950 --> 00:12:06,800 a system here where a supplement or a 262 00:12:11,560 --> 00:12:08,960 drug can either get what they call an 263 00:12:13,930 --> 00:12:11,570 austere Australia are listing which 264 00:12:16,930 --> 00:12:13,940 stands for registered or an aust L which 265 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:16,940 stands for listed aust are on a product 266 00:12:22,990 --> 00:12:19,850 means it's been thoroughly tested if a 267 00:12:26,350 --> 00:12:23,000 efficacy and demonstrated scientifically 268 00:12:29,470 --> 00:12:26,360 to work aust L listed only means that 269 00:12:31,780 --> 00:12:29,480 the company involved has simply said oh 270 00:12:33,220 --> 00:12:31,790 we do have the we do have the proof 271 00:12:34,990 --> 00:12:33,230 somewhere or it's been used 272 00:12:36,970 --> 00:12:35,000 traditionally so that's all it needs to 273 00:12:39,190 --> 00:12:36,980 be and as long as the ingredients are 274 00:12:40,780 --> 00:12:39,200 safe that they can market and of course 275 00:12:44,530 --> 00:12:40,790 they can market it with all sorts of 276 00:12:47,199 --> 00:12:44,540 interesting claims which ultimately or 277 00:12:49,540 --> 00:12:47,209 often they don't have to back up yeah we 278 00:12:52,389 --> 00:12:49,550 have a very similar process the it's 279 00:12:54,190 --> 00:12:52,399 sort of a hybrid process the the Health 280 00:12:57,430 --> 00:12:54,200 Canada does claim that everything it 281 00:13:01,540 --> 00:12:57,440 licenses has been tested for their 282 00:13:03,100 --> 00:13:01,550 efficacy safety and quality which is a 283 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:03,110 bit misleading when it comes to things 284 00:13:07,870 --> 00:13:06,050 like homeopathy we did a report last 285 00:13:09,490 --> 00:13:07,880 year when actually we had a whole 286 00:13:12,570 --> 00:13:09,500 campaign last year called the stop no 287 00:13:14,820 --> 00:13:12,580 sodes campaign which concerns 288 00:13:18,100 --> 00:13:14,830 homeopathic medications that are given 289 00:13:20,260 --> 00:13:18,110 in some cases to as a preventive or 290 00:13:22,390 --> 00:13:20,270 emplacement of replacement of a vaccine 291 00:13:24,670 --> 00:13:22,400 which we head of course had a lot of 292 00:13:26,740 --> 00:13:24,680 issues with and these kind of products 293 00:13:30,670 --> 00:13:26,750 they have their own kind of homeopathic 294 00:13:32,110 --> 00:13:30,680 number it's not the same license number 295 00:13:34,870 --> 00:13:32,120 as you would get with a standard natural 296 00:13:37,660 --> 00:13:34,880 health product but they're still there 297 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:37,670 still claiming Health Canada is that 298 00:13:43,180 --> 00:13:40,010 they these products have been assessed 299 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:43,190 for equality a safety and an efficacy 300 00:13:47,740 --> 00:13:45,770 which in the case of these no's oats I 301 00:13:51,190 --> 00:13:47,750 mean the only thing they had to supply 302 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:51,200 as far as proof of efficacy was a Liske 303 00:13:55,390 --> 00:13:53,810 listing in a in the American 304 00:13:58,000 --> 00:13:55,400 pharmacopoeia which basically is a one 305 00:14:00,699 --> 00:13:58,010 paragraph maybe 50 word sentence saying 306 00:14:03,010 --> 00:14:00,709 this is used traditionally for this and 307 00:14:06,519 --> 00:14:03,020 that's it and then you know that's just 308 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:06,529 a ridiculous have animals evidence it is 309 00:14:10,510 --> 00:14:09,290 it's it's interesting I mean I guess you 310 00:14:12,550 --> 00:14:10,520 and I have been at this sort of thing 311 00:14:15,070 --> 00:14:12,560 long enough to know that if something 312 00:14:18,310 --> 00:14:15,080 that is homeopathic is claiming 313 00:14:20,620 --> 00:14:18,320 it has a thick acebo hind it or it 314 00:14:23,470 --> 00:14:20,630 really works then our default position 315 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:23,480 is no it doesn't yeah exactly there is 316 00:14:27,730 --> 00:14:25,010 no evidence but despite that Health 317 00:14:30,220 --> 00:14:27,740 Canada still you know proves these items 318 00:14:31,660 --> 00:14:30,230 and the TCM items I mean this this 319 00:14:33,310 --> 00:14:31,670 current monograph caught our eye not 320 00:14:35,650 --> 00:14:33,320 only because the actual number of items 321 00:14:41,470 --> 00:14:35,660 on it but there was actually a lack of 322 00:14:44,050 --> 00:14:41,480 quite serious or concerning ingredients 323 00:14:45,730 --> 00:14:44,060 that were not on this list we have 324 00:14:47,740 --> 00:14:45,740 because there were so many of course we 325 00:14:49,690 --> 00:14:47,750 couldn't do a full review and in fact I 326 00:14:50,830 --> 00:14:49,700 mean the public shouldn't be responsible 327 00:14:52,180 --> 00:14:50,840 for doing a risk review of these 328 00:14:53,650 --> 00:14:52,190 products we should be looking to Health 329 00:14:55,300 --> 00:14:53,660 Canada to do these kind of risky views 330 00:14:56,800 --> 00:14:55,310 and what was quite evident when we 331 00:14:59,080 --> 00:14:56,810 looked at all these ingredients was that 332 00:15:01,210 --> 00:14:59,090 even we I mean we took the approach that 333 00:15:02,530 --> 00:15:01,220 well if anything is going to be toxic 334 00:15:03,610 --> 00:15:02,540 it's probably going to be toxic to your 335 00:15:06,940 --> 00:15:03,620 liver this got probably going to be 336 00:15:09,790 --> 00:15:06,950 evidence of that at least if that exists 337 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:09,800 in the literature and when we we did 338 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:10,730 look at the literature there were a 339 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:12,890 number of ingredients probably 30 or 40 340 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:15,410 degrees we found that had noted risks 341 00:15:20,950 --> 00:15:19,010 for liver toxicity specifically I mean 342 00:15:23,500 --> 00:15:20,960 that evidence check was done by one of 343 00:15:26,260 --> 00:15:23,510 our committee members who have actually 344 00:15:28,300 --> 00:15:26,270 used to work for that Health Canada 345 00:15:30,490 --> 00:15:28,310 Department he's now an adjunct 346 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:30,500 professors name's Brian Foster at the 347 00:15:33,970 --> 00:15:32,930 University of Ottawa and he it just took 348 00:15:35,620 --> 00:15:33,980 him a couple days to find this 349 00:15:37,270 --> 00:15:35,630 information so who knows what else 350 00:15:39,040 --> 00:15:37,280 exists out there as far as risk 351 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:39,050 information and this of course was not 352 00:15:42,850 --> 00:15:41,210 published with the monograph you know oh 353 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:42,860 I can only guess what Health Canada did 354 00:15:46,210 --> 00:15:44,690 is to look at the risks when we found 355 00:15:49,660 --> 00:15:46,220 all these products that were on 356 00:15:52,330 --> 00:15:49,670 basically the approved list or the 357 00:15:54,610 --> 00:15:52,340 streamlining list it really raised red 358 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:54,620 flags and we we really you know want to 359 00:15:57,370 --> 00:15:55,970 bring this to their attention so we had 360 00:16:01,270 --> 00:15:57,380 to sort drop of we were doing and and 361 00:16:04,270 --> 00:16:01,280 focus on this this kind of report it's 362 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:04,280 not the only thing that the traditional 363 00:16:10,990 --> 00:16:06,650 chinese medicine ingredients have going 364 00:16:13,570 --> 00:16:11,000 for that namely liver toxicity they 365 00:16:16,950 --> 00:16:13,580 they're sort of well known for 366 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:16,960 containing both adulterations meaning 367 00:16:23,110 --> 00:16:20,690 ingredients in the preparation that are 368 00:16:24,670 --> 00:16:23,120 not on the label many times it's 369 00:16:28,420 --> 00:16:24,680 actually a pharmaceutical grade product 370 00:16:28,900 --> 00:16:28,430 like male enhancement medications for 371 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:28,910 example 372 00:16:33,790 --> 00:16:32,090 for rectal dysfunction they've been a 373 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:33,800 number of cases where these traditional 374 00:16:37,900 --> 00:16:34,730 Chinese medicines have actually 375 00:16:40,450 --> 00:16:37,910 contained viagra or other 376 00:16:42,970 --> 00:16:40,460 pharmaceuticals so really course it 377 00:16:44,140 --> 00:16:42,980 would work right because of that and and 378 00:16:46,420 --> 00:16:44,150 those kind of adulterations are a 379 00:16:48,910 --> 00:16:46,430 serious issue some of these taking you 380 00:16:49,930 --> 00:16:48,920 know and I don't know if you what many 381 00:16:52,150 --> 00:16:49,940 of your listeners probably know this but 382 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:52,160 if somebody is taking heart medication 383 00:16:55,540 --> 00:16:53,450 called nitrates they could have a very 384 00:16:57,070 --> 00:16:55,550 serious and life-threatening reaction if 385 00:16:58,750 --> 00:16:57,080 they're not if they're taking these 386 00:17:00,520 --> 00:16:58,760 other medications which they think are 387 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:00,530 natural and actually contain viagra I 388 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:02,570 mean the problem with herbal medications 389 00:17:10,210 --> 00:17:05,690 of course is that unless you are growing 390 00:17:13,110 --> 00:17:10,220 the herb yourself and harvesting it and 391 00:17:16,270 --> 00:17:13,120 processing it you have no idea what that 392 00:17:20,290 --> 00:17:16,280 crushed leaf dried sample that you ship 393 00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:20,300 in from China or from wherever is you've 394 00:17:24,580 --> 00:17:22,210 no idea whether that's the actual 395 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:24,590 species of plant that you require or not 396 00:17:28,630 --> 00:17:26,450 you have to actually do quality testing 397 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:28,640 and the problem is of course Health 398 00:17:35,650 --> 00:17:32,410 Canada doesn't mandate any mandatory 399 00:17:37,180 --> 00:17:35,660 quality control it's all voluntary who 400 00:17:41,530 --> 00:17:37,190 knows what's really in these medications 401 00:17:43,900 --> 00:17:41,540 no one is really doing the tests to find 402 00:17:46,270 --> 00:17:43,910 out if what's on the label is in the 403 00:17:49,510 --> 00:17:46,280 product that's frightening and it also 404 00:17:52,180 --> 00:17:49,520 reminds me of this I guess we could say 405 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:52,190 the myth of its natural therefore it 406 00:17:58,060 --> 00:17:54,170 must be good if people think they're 407 00:18:00,040 --> 00:17:58,070 getting traditional Chinese medicine or 408 00:18:01,990 --> 00:18:00,050 traditional whatever Madison you know we 409 00:18:04,090 --> 00:18:02,000 would we can sort of cast our net a 410 00:18:06,730 --> 00:18:04,100 little wider here it's made from natural 411 00:18:08,230 --> 00:18:06,740 ingredients traditionally used in 412 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:08,240 different parts of the world there's 413 00:18:12,790 --> 00:18:10,850 this aura about them if I might use that 414 00:18:14,470 --> 00:18:12,800 word that there they must be okay 415 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:14,480 because they're natural and they've been 416 00:18:20,230 --> 00:18:16,930 used for centuries and they're not 417 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:20,240 artificially made in a laboratory it's 418 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:21,770 quite interesting a lot of people still 419 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:25,490 have that opinion I think absolutely it 420 00:18:31,180 --> 00:18:28,010 seems like Health Canada has taken that 421 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:31,190 is sort of under written its policy by 422 00:18:35,500 --> 00:18:33,050 this fallacy that if it's natural it's 423 00:18:37,300 --> 00:18:35,510 good in the case of natural health 424 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:37,310 products they do what's called a 425 00:18:42,620 --> 00:18:39,290 risk-based assessment and it's all based 426 00:18:45,740 --> 00:18:42,630 on your claim so if you make a claim 427 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:45,750 like my product will cure cancer well 428 00:18:49,850 --> 00:18:47,730 that's a very high-risk claim right if 429 00:18:51,620 --> 00:18:49,860 you if that claim is wrong then they 430 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:51,630 could it could seriously injure somebody 431 00:18:56,390 --> 00:18:54,450 so yes that kind of claim requires a 432 00:18:58,700 --> 00:18:56,400 very high level of evidence comparable 433 00:19:01,250 --> 00:18:58,710 with a pharmaceutical grade product but 434 00:19:03,470 --> 00:19:01,260 if you choose to make a lower risk claim 435 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:03,480 like my product supports the immune 436 00:19:10,580 --> 00:19:08,010 system or supports GI health then that 437 00:19:12,530 --> 00:19:10,590 is considered a low-risk claim and the 438 00:19:16,100 --> 00:19:12,540 level of evidence seriously drops in 439 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:16,110 fact if you make a very low risk general 440 00:19:22,700 --> 00:19:19,410 health claim one of the one of the types 441 00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:22,710 of evidence you can use is is expert 442 00:19:27,410 --> 00:19:24,690 opinion and that will be enough for 443 00:19:32,990 --> 00:19:27,420 Health Canada to approve the product it 444 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:33,000 is it's it's just a backwards way of it 445 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:35,610 mrs. this idea of efficacy right sort of 446 00:19:41,180 --> 00:19:37,410 assumes that because it's natural it's 447 00:19:43,100 --> 00:19:41,190 safe and as long as your claim is not 448 00:19:46,100 --> 00:19:43,110 claiming anything major then you can go 449 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:46,110 ahead and sell it that that's amazing 450 00:19:49,970 --> 00:19:47,850 and I couldn't help but thinking when 451 00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:49,980 you were talking about these low risk 452 00:19:57,050 --> 00:19:54,690 products that probably the same in 453 00:19:58,700 --> 00:19:57,060 Canada these similar sort of things out 454 00:20:01,280 --> 00:19:58,710 here tend to use a lot of weasel words 455 00:20:04,850 --> 00:20:01,290 what we call weasel words or words that 456 00:20:07,880 --> 00:20:04,860 really don't have a good definition like 457 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:07,890 zest this pill will give you more zest 458 00:20:16,630 --> 00:20:12,330 or improves your wellness right or has 459 00:20:19,700 --> 00:20:16,640 been used to improve your vitality 460 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:19,710 vitality and and all these sort of the I 461 00:20:23,990 --> 00:20:22,290 guess weasel words do you have similar 462 00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:24,000 sort of things over there we do we 463 00:20:28,220 --> 00:20:26,250 certainly have um you have to use 464 00:20:33,470 --> 00:20:28,230 language is very similar to the to the 465 00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:33,480 monograph language however there's two 466 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:35,130 things that sort of set natural health 467 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:37,650 products apart first of all we have a 468 00:20:43,190 --> 00:20:40,050 under our food and drug act we've got a 469 00:20:45,650 --> 00:20:43,200 what's called a schedule a which lists 470 00:20:51,550 --> 00:20:45,660 all of the medical conditions that you 471 00:20:56,330 --> 00:20:55,430 market for cures or treatment on these 472 00:20:57,799 --> 00:20:56,340 include 473 00:21:00,919 --> 00:20:57,809 serious medical conditions heart disease 474 00:21:04,460 --> 00:21:00,929 and cancer and things like that however 475 00:21:07,250 --> 00:21:04,470 about I don't know maybe six five years 476 00:21:10,220 --> 00:21:07,260 ago six years ago there was that was 477 00:21:12,350 --> 00:21:10,230 updated or amended so that if you were 478 00:21:14,710 --> 00:21:12,360 if you had a natural health product and 479 00:21:17,269 --> 00:21:14,720 you were marketing it for prevention 480 00:21:20,419 --> 00:21:17,279 then you could market it for these 481 00:21:22,820 --> 00:21:20,429 schedule a diseases so you can't say 482 00:21:27,289 --> 00:21:22,830 it's going to cure it but you can say it 483 00:21:28,850 --> 00:21:27,299 will help prevent our help support so 484 00:21:31,519 --> 00:21:28,860 that's one problem the other problem is 485 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:31,529 that it's a pragmatic one is that Health 486 00:21:38,060 --> 00:21:33,570 Canada does not seem to have the 487 00:21:40,730 --> 00:21:38,070 resources to properly police these 488 00:21:43,130 --> 00:21:40,740 regulations and so where we have a 489 00:21:45,350 --> 00:21:43,140 project underway right now at at that 490 00:21:50,120 --> 00:21:45,360 science watch which is trying to 491 00:21:53,659 --> 00:21:50,130 identify the marketing of homeopathic 492 00:21:55,899 --> 00:21:53,669 products that have a license but to see 493 00:22:00,940 --> 00:21:55,909 if the marketing materials by the 494 00:22:03,590 --> 00:22:00,950 distributor actually matches the allowed 495 00:22:05,450 --> 00:22:03,600 indication according to the license and 496 00:22:06,980 --> 00:22:05,460 now we have we're just in the middle of 497 00:22:08,090 --> 00:22:06,990 collecting all our data so we haven't 498 00:22:09,649 --> 00:22:08,100 done the analysis yet but our 499 00:22:12,799 --> 00:22:09,659 preliminary is like our pilot study 500 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:12,809 showed even just a cursory look at these 501 00:22:16,549 --> 00:22:14,850 kind of websites is that people are 502 00:22:18,950 --> 00:22:16,559 completely disregarding the license 503 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:18,960 procedure and as a as a distributor 504 00:22:23,450 --> 00:22:21,570 you're not held the same standard as an 505 00:22:26,029 --> 00:22:23,460 actual product manufacturer so the label 506 00:22:28,340 --> 00:22:26,039 might say to support gia health but a 507 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:28,350 natural path in Saskatchewan or ontario 508 00:22:34,430 --> 00:22:30,570 can on their website sell this 509 00:22:37,850 --> 00:22:34,440 medication this this preparation and say 510 00:22:40,730 --> 00:22:37,860 that it can help cure your L sirs Wow 511 00:22:43,130 --> 00:22:40,740 for example and and and that is under 512 00:22:45,620 --> 00:22:43,140 the law under the regulations Health 513 00:22:47,570 --> 00:22:45,630 Canada should be shutting that that kind 514 00:22:50,149 --> 00:22:47,580 of process down but it's obvious that 515 00:22:53,299 --> 00:22:50,159 people are acting with impunity they 516 00:22:57,110 --> 00:22:53,309 know that it's a it's a complaint based 517 00:22:58,460 --> 00:22:57,120 system and without you know alerting 518 00:23:01,039 --> 00:22:58,470 Health Canada to all these problems 519 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:01,049 nobody's going after them and so we're 520 00:23:08,060 --> 00:23:03,210 trying to identify that kind of mismatch 521 00:23:09,890 --> 00:23:08,070 in the market and alert the the regular 522 00:23:12,500 --> 00:23:09,900 the regulatory arm or the 523 00:23:15,410 --> 00:23:12,510 the enforcement arm of Health Canada and 524 00:23:16,490 --> 00:23:15,420 try to get them to to wise up that you 525 00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:16,500 know realize that people are actually 526 00:23:19,670 --> 00:23:17,490 marketing these products in 527 00:23:22,250 --> 00:23:19,680 contravention it's quite it's quite 528 00:23:25,250 --> 00:23:22,260 amazing because the similarities between 529 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:25,260 what the situation is in Canada or what 530 00:23:32,180 --> 00:23:27,210 the situation here in Australia are 531 00:23:34,070 --> 00:23:32,190 quite quite striking the TGA in this 532 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:34,080 country I I think are in the same 533 00:23:40,220 --> 00:23:35,730 position they don't have the resources 534 00:23:43,610 --> 00:23:40,230 to police many of the things that they 535 00:23:45,650 --> 00:23:43,620 actually give their they're almost their 536 00:23:49,790 --> 00:23:45,660 stamp of approval to when they give them 537 00:23:52,700 --> 00:23:49,800 the austell the listing classification 538 00:23:54,530 --> 00:23:52,710 and it is up to people like The 539 00:24:00,080 --> 00:23:54,540 Skeptical community and other concerned 540 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:00,090 people to spot when people are doing the 541 00:24:05,870 --> 00:24:02,690 wrong thing and claiming all sorts of 542 00:24:08,570 --> 00:24:05,880 things for these these pills and these 543 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:08,580 potions and these mixtures so I it's a 544 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:10,530 pity Canada and Australia or so far 545 00:24:15,350 --> 00:24:14,010 apart in one sense yes I always say 546 00:24:19,070 --> 00:24:15,360 especially when we want to go to the 547 00:24:21,650 --> 00:24:19,080 beach because I live in Toronto and the 548 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:21,660 beach here is great but it's not Bondi 549 00:24:29,180 --> 00:24:26,210 but no you're absolutely right we have 550 00:24:30,950 --> 00:24:29,190 it's like it's sad we are aware consumer 551 00:24:33,190 --> 00:24:30,960 protection organization at our heart but 552 00:24:38,030 --> 00:24:33,200 that's why bad signs watch was was was 553 00:24:39,890 --> 00:24:38,040 really constituted and yeah and it 554 00:24:42,700 --> 00:24:39,900 became it's become the increasingly 555 00:24:47,210 --> 00:24:42,710 disheartening to see a regulatory 556 00:24:49,550 --> 00:24:47,220 structure that is really not funded and 557 00:24:51,590 --> 00:24:49,560 obviously not funded well enough to have 558 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:51,600 the enforcement that we need and there's 559 00:24:58,100 --> 00:24:55,050 also a basic misunderstanding I think 560 00:24:59,720 --> 00:24:58,110 between end users or the end prescribers 561 00:25:01,820 --> 00:24:59,730 of these products that natural paths and 562 00:25:05,900 --> 00:25:01,830 the homeopaths and the herbalists and 563 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:05,910 chiropractors they they seem to think 564 00:25:11,810 --> 00:25:08,610 that if Health Canada approves it they 565 00:25:13,850 --> 00:25:11,820 have the permission to say whatever they 566 00:25:16,010 --> 00:25:13,860 want about the product now of course 567 00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:16,020 it's up to the regulatory colleges we do 568 00:25:18,950 --> 00:25:17,130 have regular we have a new regulatory 569 00:25:21,620 --> 00:25:18,960 college both natural paths and homey 570 00:25:23,250 --> 00:25:21,630 paths in Ontario it already exists in bc 571 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:23,260 as well so this this kind of 572 00:25:31,110 --> 00:25:26,890 professionalization of of these kind of 573 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:31,120 fringe alt med providers is occurring in 574 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:33,730 Canada and they and then the colleges 575 00:25:39,410 --> 00:25:36,690 are responsible for protecting that that 576 00:25:42,030 --> 00:25:39,420 client patient or that patient provider 577 00:25:43,050 --> 00:25:42,040 relationship and making it safe so 578 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:43,060 Health Canada I really can't say 579 00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:44,890 anything about that but was very 580 00:25:49,350 --> 00:25:47,770 striking one of the successful things we 581 00:25:51,570 --> 00:25:49,360 had with a no-sew campaign was that they 582 00:25:53,310 --> 00:25:51,580 had to put into the monograph for 583 00:25:55,770 --> 00:25:53,320 homeopathic no so is that these products 584 00:25:57,690 --> 00:25:55,780 are not intended as a replacement for 585 00:25:59,760 --> 00:25:57,700 vaccines and they should not be used as 586 00:26:02,580 --> 00:25:59,770 such it was a small there was a small 587 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:02,590 victory for us but that that kind of 588 00:26:07,670 --> 00:26:05,530 language even though that was implied 589 00:26:12,690 --> 00:26:07,680 because there was no allowable 590 00:26:15,690 --> 00:26:12,700 indication previous to that change for 591 00:26:19,170 --> 00:26:15,700 the use of these products for as vaccine 592 00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:19,180 alternatives the providers thought that 593 00:26:25,170 --> 00:26:22,570 because it had a license of course it 594 00:26:29,030 --> 00:26:25,180 was it was then deemed effective right 595 00:26:31,710 --> 00:26:29,040 so by Wow by licensing these products 596 00:26:33,330 --> 00:26:31,720 and we and we saw this in the UK as well 597 00:26:37,770 --> 00:26:33,340 as says see Health Canada proves that 598 00:26:40,050 --> 00:26:37,780 influent influenza 9 seen since its 599 00:26:43,620 --> 00:26:40,060 license it must be good at preventing 600 00:26:44,940 --> 00:26:43,630 the flu but that isn't and that is the 601 00:26:46,620 --> 00:26:44,950 misunderstanding that health care 602 00:26:49,740 --> 00:26:46,630 doesn't realize that what they're doing 603 00:26:51,450 --> 00:26:49,750 by insisting that they've they've tested 604 00:26:54,090 --> 00:26:51,460 these things for efficacy risk and high 605 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:54,100 and high quality or efficacy safety in 606 00:26:56,640 --> 00:26:55,330 high quality is that they are giving 607 00:26:59,280 --> 00:26:56,650 these people license to make whatever 608 00:27:00,990 --> 00:26:59,290 claim they want and to sort of validate 609 00:27:02,780 --> 00:27:01,000 their position that these products 610 00:27:05,850 --> 00:27:02,790 actually work when in fact they don't 611 00:27:09,450 --> 00:27:05,860 and I think that Health Canada doesn't 612 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:09,460 doesn't realize that and we've been told 613 00:27:12,390 --> 00:27:10,810 to the grapevine that they don't really 614 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:12,400 like us very much for bringing this 615 00:27:15,630 --> 00:27:14,290 stuff out and I'm not surprised right 616 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:15,640 like who wants to be told they're wrong 617 00:27:21,930 --> 00:27:18,250 every step of the way yeah yeah that 618 00:27:24,360 --> 00:27:21,940 well nobody nobody I mean you and I know 619 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:24,370 who on the planet likes to be told 620 00:27:30,420 --> 00:27:28,450 they're wrong often I mean once or twice 621 00:27:31,890 --> 00:27:30,430 to help you but if you're told 622 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:31,900 continuously that you're doing something 623 00:27:36,300 --> 00:27:33,850 wrong yeah you can get quite annoyed 624 00:27:37,470 --> 00:27:36,310 about that but it's good to know it's 625 00:27:40,180 --> 00:27:37,480 good to know my 626 00:27:42,730 --> 00:27:40,190 you're out there you're out there with 627 00:27:44,409 --> 00:27:42,740 bad signs watch annoying people like 628 00:27:46,360 --> 00:27:44,419 Health Canada how many people are 629 00:27:47,919 --> 00:27:46,370 involved with bad science right well 630 00:27:50,620 --> 00:27:47,929 we've got a print when T and 30 631 00:27:52,360 --> 00:27:50,630 volunteers off and on I mean our current 632 00:27:55,360 --> 00:27:52,370 we've got to project committees working 633 00:27:58,749 --> 00:27:55,370 currently and that's about what 12 634 00:28:00,759 --> 00:27:58,759 people we have about full five members 635 00:28:04,450 --> 00:28:00,769 of the board and I think a total of 636 00:28:08,169 --> 00:28:04,460 eight or nine total members membership 637 00:28:10,269 --> 00:28:08,179 is by invitation to sort of for people 638 00:28:12,090 --> 00:28:10,279 who are strong you know supporters and 639 00:28:14,950 --> 00:28:12,100 long-term supporters of the organization 640 00:28:17,110 --> 00:28:14,960 and so there's about 20 or 30 people so 641 00:28:19,990 --> 00:28:17,120 far we've got a lot of support we think 642 00:28:22,330 --> 00:28:20,000 in the community you know lots of 643 00:28:24,340 --> 00:28:22,340 followers on Twitter and we get to get a 644 00:28:26,470 --> 00:28:24,350 lot of traffic that way so we're 645 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:26,480 building we're slowly building you know 646 00:28:31,210 --> 00:28:29,450 the organization up certainly our next 647 00:28:32,619 --> 00:28:31,220 kind of effort is to is to start to 648 00:28:34,149 --> 00:28:32,629 raise more money so we can have a paid 649 00:28:36,430 --> 00:28:34,159 executive I mean it'd be great one of 650 00:28:38,409 --> 00:28:36,440 the one of the problems with we're a web 651 00:28:39,940 --> 00:28:38,419 based organization we have no bricks and 652 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:39,950 mortar building right this is all sort 653 00:28:45,460 --> 00:28:43,730 of virtual activism as it were and so 654 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:45,470 are you know the idea is to grow the 655 00:28:49,350 --> 00:28:47,690 organization raise some money hire an 656 00:28:53,169 --> 00:28:49,360 executive hiring executive director and 657 00:28:56,019 --> 00:28:53,179 get an office in Ottawa which is the our 658 00:28:58,180 --> 00:28:56,029 nation's capital where the legislature 659 00:29:00,759 --> 00:28:58,190 sets our Parliament since I should say 660 00:29:02,889 --> 00:29:00,769 and and to have that kind of access not 661 00:29:05,830 --> 00:29:02,899 only to the politicians but to the media 662 00:29:08,830 --> 00:29:05,840 so we're you know slowly we're trying to 663 00:29:11,039 --> 00:29:08,840 you know stake our claim and and grow 664 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:11,049 the organization will be certainly 665 00:29:15,700 --> 00:29:13,490 putting hat in hand and looking for 666 00:29:18,940 --> 00:29:15,710 donations very soon it sort of raise 667 00:29:22,899 --> 00:29:18,950 that kind of serious money so so we can 668 00:29:25,629 --> 00:29:22,909 have a voice and and and defend science 669 00:29:27,430 --> 00:29:25,639 and in public policy in Canada it sounds 670 00:29:29,889 --> 00:29:27,440 like a good idea to me folks if you want 671 00:29:37,029 --> 00:29:29,899 to find out more about bad science watch 672 00:29:38,830 --> 00:29:37,039 visit WWDC a if you want to follow bad 673 00:29:41,289 --> 00:29:38,840 science watch on twitter you can do that 674 00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:41,299 at bad science watch you even have a 675 00:29:47,879 --> 00:29:44,450 facebook page and people can go to the 676 00:29:50,510 --> 00:29:47,889 web page and sign up to the newsletter 677 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:50,520 absolutely we'd love to hear from here 678 00:29:54,110 --> 00:29:52,290 and that's exactly how I get my 679 00:29:56,450 --> 00:29:54,120 information from bad science watch too 680 00:29:58,670 --> 00:29:56,460 well Michael crews thank you very much I 681 00:30:01,270 --> 00:29:58,680 know you've been awake all night just 682 00:30:03,650 --> 00:30:01,280 waiting to talk to the skeptic zone yes 683 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:03,660 it's oddly enough i've been awake all 684 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:06,570 day just waiting to talk to you and so 685 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:08,610 Michael all the way over there in 686 00:30:11,750 --> 00:30:10,650 Toronto thanks very much you're very 687 00:30:14,990 --> 00:30:11,760 welcome back too quick to talk to you 688 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:15,000 again the Canadian public has been 689 00:30:18,620 --> 00:30:16,650 poorly served by a government which 690 00:30:22,100 --> 00:30:18,630 displays little respect for objectivity 691 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:22,110 and science Canadians are taken 692 00:30:25,910 --> 00:30:23,610 advantage of through weak consumer 693 00:30:27,980 --> 00:30:25,920 protection regulations that allow the 694 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:27,990 sale of products and services that don't 695 00:30:32,090 --> 00:30:30,690 work and our media is all too willing to 696 00:30:34,130 --> 00:30:32,100 report dubious claims without 697 00:30:38,150 --> 00:30:34,140 examination if it will attract readers 698 00:30:40,430 --> 00:30:38,160 and sell advertising individual freedom 699 00:30:42,410 --> 00:30:40,440 of choice is being jeopardized as the 700 00:30:45,500 --> 00:30:42,420 unscrupulous or misinformed attempt to 701 00:30:49,130 --> 00:30:45,510 influence our important decisions it's 702 00:30:51,500 --> 00:30:49,140 time for a change bad science watches a 703 00:30:53,930 --> 00:30:51,510 new activist organization that will 704 00:30:55,850 --> 00:30:53,940 challenge the media advertisers and 705 00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:55,860 politicians when they promote unsound 706 00:30:59,130 --> 00:30:57,330 signs that can threaten the well-being 707 00:31:01,770 --> 00:30:59,140 of Canadians 708 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:01,780 we will provide analysis of dubious 709 00:31:07,230 --> 00:31:04,690 scientific claims to unit our government 710 00:31:08,790 --> 00:31:07,240 and the media can campaign for policy 711 00:31:12,630 --> 00:31:08,800 decisions based on the best evidence 712 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:12,640 available we will take action to 713 00:31:16,470 --> 00:31:14,890 pressure politicians to enforce and 714 00:31:19,140 --> 00:31:16,480 strengthen consumer protection 715 00:31:22,470 --> 00:31:19,150 regulation we will stand against the 716 00:31:25,950 --> 00:31:22,480 exploitation of you and your family by 717 00:31:28,620 --> 00:31:25,960 the peddlers of bad science you can help 718 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:28,630 us donate our pledge to support our 719 00:31:33,270 --> 00:31:31,450 campaigns and research efforts join our 720 00:31:36,900 --> 00:31:33,280 mailing list to receive action alerts 721 00:31:40,260 --> 00:31:36,910 and help effect real change tell your 722 00:31:44,900 --> 00:31:40,270 friends about us find out more at bat 723 00:32:04,340 --> 00:31:44,910 science watch see a bad science watch 724 00:32:08,460 --> 00:32:06,840 hey this is jay novella from the 725 00:32:10,380 --> 00:32:08,470 skeptics guide to the universe podcast 726 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:10,390 did you know that there are thousands of 727 00:32:13,950 --> 00:32:12,250 skeptical reports interviews and 728 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:13,960 investigations going back to nineteen 729 00:32:20,549 --> 00:32:16,690 eighty one free to download just visit w 730 00:32:22,260 --> 00:32:20,559 WC a pet co a you click the publications 731 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:22,270 link and enjoy almost every back issue 732 00:32:25,769 --> 00:32:24,010 of the skeptic the journal from 733 00:32:27,330 --> 00:32:25,779 australian skeptics you can also 734 00:32:29,610 --> 00:32:27,340 subscribe online and get the latest 735 00:32:31,620 --> 00:32:29,620 digital or hard copy of this the world's 736 00:32:35,310 --> 00:32:31,630 second oldest skeptical magazine that's 737 00:32:49,610 --> 00:32:35,320 ww skeptics com a you or just google 738 00:32:55,430 --> 00:32:51,920 from the pages of the skeptic magazine 739 00:32:59,030 --> 00:32:55,440 at www skeptics calm today you we bring 740 00:33:04,280 --> 00:32:59,040 you your stars for april 2014 with our 741 00:33:06,470 --> 00:33:04,290 astrologer dr. do fe calf capricorn your 742 00:33:09,290 --> 00:33:06,480 love of animals extends to the kitchen 743 00:33:11,420 --> 00:33:09,300 where you love to cook them do you know 744 00:33:14,750 --> 00:33:11,430 that animals have their own star signs 745 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:14,760 to imagine a ram born under the sign of 746 00:33:20,720 --> 00:33:17,490 a fish or a bull born under the sign of 747 00:33:23,180 --> 00:33:20,730 a goat talk about confused animals still 748 00:33:26,830 --> 00:33:23,190 I'm sure they would taste good you're 749 00:33:29,330 --> 00:33:26,840 lucky rabbit has all its feet Aquarius 750 00:33:32,510 --> 00:33:29,340 remember the advice your mother gave you 751 00:33:34,910 --> 00:33:32,520 about reading strange horoscopes well 752 00:33:38,450 --> 00:33:34,920 it's all true but thanks for reading 753 00:33:42,290 --> 00:33:38,460 this one anyway now let me see Pluto is 754 00:33:44,919 --> 00:33:42,300 entering the fourth region of the what 755 00:33:48,530 --> 00:33:44,929 what's that Pluto is no longer a planet 756 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:48,540 what do you mean all those thousands of 757 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:50,610 horoscopes that use Pluto as a planet 758 00:33:56,840 --> 00:33:53,610 and our null and void and I did not 759 00:33:59,930 --> 00:33:56,850 predict Pisces even though you are 760 00:34:03,260 --> 00:33:59,940 really trying your best other people of 761 00:34:05,690 --> 00:34:03,270 your star sign have voted you off please 762 00:34:07,580 --> 00:34:05,700 apply to another star sign on maybe try 763 00:34:10,669 --> 00:34:07,590 another planet with the different star 764 00:34:13,310 --> 00:34:10,679 signs but yet make up your own star sign 765 00:34:15,619 --> 00:34:13,320 invite others to join and start to write 766 00:34:20,869 --> 00:34:15,629 a horoscope for them you're lucky song 767 00:34:23,990 --> 00:34:20,879 is I'm a loser Aries I see in your stars 768 00:34:27,350 --> 00:34:24,000 you picking up your phone and darling my 769 00:34:31,700 --> 00:34:27,360 five dollars 99 permanent Tarot hotline 770 00:34:33,980 --> 00:34:31,710 yes the cards can tell you all in fact 771 00:34:36,649 --> 00:34:33,990 your cards are telling me to dial my 772 00:34:39,290 --> 00:34:36,659 seven dollar 99 per minute psychic 773 00:34:41,990 --> 00:34:39,300 reading hotline the amazing thing is I 774 00:34:44,119 --> 00:34:42,000 see the psychic predictions have you 775 00:34:46,940 --> 00:34:44,129 darling my nine dollars 99 per minute 776 00:34:50,990 --> 00:34:46,950 astrology hotline in which you were told 777 00:34:55,550 --> 00:34:51,000 to dial my $13 99 permanent thing shui 778 00:34:57,200 --> 00:34:55,560 hotline why stop there Taurus this is a 779 00:34:58,660 --> 00:34:57,210 good month for counting the days until 780 00:35:00,849 --> 00:34:58,670 next month 781 00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:00,859 if you count more than 31 you're doing 782 00:35:05,950 --> 00:35:03,530 something very wrong since you gave up 783 00:35:08,230 --> 00:35:05,960 drinking you're lucky bodily organ is 784 00:35:11,650 --> 00:35:08,240 your liver you're unlucky business owner 785 00:35:13,930 --> 00:35:11,660 is your local publican Gemini forget 786 00:35:15,549 --> 00:35:13,940 trying to remember all those things you 787 00:35:19,299 --> 00:35:15,559 forgot about last time you read your 788 00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:19,309 horoscope if you are driving a car stop 789 00:35:24,579 --> 00:35:21,650 reading this immediately not your lucky 790 00:35:29,309 --> 00:35:24,589 numbers and the Stars forecast this 791 00:35:36,910 --> 00:35:29,319 month that your lucky numbers are 747 792 00:35:39,430 --> 00:35:36,920 767 787 and a 380 hmm the Stars see a 793 00:35:41,950 --> 00:35:39,440 lot of air travel in your future cancer 794 00:35:43,870 --> 00:35:41,960 kissing a frog will not turn it into a 795 00:35:46,690 --> 00:35:43,880 prince but i'm sure the frog won't care 796 00:35:49,150 --> 00:35:46,700 but you might have a new best friend you 797 00:35:51,549 --> 00:35:49,160 could try kissing a snake I wonder what 798 00:35:54,039 --> 00:35:51,559 that would turn into now the Stars 799 00:35:57,370 --> 00:35:54,049 recommend you stick to humans and super 800 00:36:02,170 --> 00:35:57,380 glue is just the thing for that Leo the 801 00:36:05,170 --> 00:36:02,180 quote nastradamus in the year 2000 + 14 802 00:36:08,020 --> 00:36:05,180 the great doctor eeka will cast a 803 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:08,030 horoscope those in the Southern land 804 00:36:15,940 --> 00:36:12,290 will send him money blood will flow in 805 00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:15,950 the blood bank there you are you'll see 806 00:36:21,309 --> 00:36:18,530 that Nostradamus is never wrong well 807 00:36:23,950 --> 00:36:21,319 maybe sometimes but not this time you're 808 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:23,960 lucky blood type is your own how lucky 809 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:25,570 is that 810 00:36:30,990 --> 00:36:29,170 virgo Mars rules your life this month 811 00:36:33,570 --> 00:36:31,000 which is why you keep running to the 812 00:36:36,540 --> 00:36:33,580 service station to buy some more imagine 813 00:36:38,490 --> 00:36:36,550 if there was a planet called KitKat as 814 00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:38,500 for myself I was born under the sign of 815 00:36:46,590 --> 00:36:41,130 the roast duck which explains a lot 816 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:46,600 you're lucky year will be 2093 as you'll 817 00:36:52,830 --> 00:36:50,410 be lucky to ever see it libera people 818 00:36:54,630 --> 00:36:52,840 born under your sign our true skeptics 819 00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:54,640 and never read horoscopes which means 820 00:36:59,310 --> 00:36:56,770 you must have been born under a 821 00:37:02,940 --> 00:36:59,320 different sign I think it's time you had 822 00:37:05,670 --> 00:37:02,950 a word to your mother Scorpio at times 823 00:37:07,290 --> 00:37:05,680 you wished you lived in the past if you 824 00:37:09,210 --> 00:37:07,300 find yourself there you could make a 825 00:37:11,730 --> 00:37:09,220 fortune predicting the future which 826 00:37:14,670 --> 00:37:11,740 would be the past view but the pastures 827 00:37:16,890 --> 00:37:14,680 you look into the future as you already 828 00:37:21,390 --> 00:37:16,900 know what the past has installed in the 829 00:37:23,720 --> 00:37:21,400 future date so there you go if you make 830 00:37:27,300 --> 00:37:23,730 it back to the future you'll be rich 831 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:27,310 Arthur UKISS don't let negative people 832 00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:29,530 get you down it's much better if it's 833 00:37:32,790 --> 00:37:31,210 positive people getting you down as they 834 00:37:36,060 --> 00:37:32,800 always make you feel good about it 835 00:37:39,090 --> 00:37:36,070 somehow Sagittarius the stars are 836 00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:39,100 unclear for you at the moment well I'll 837 00:37:43,650 --> 00:37:41,050 come clean about this I have writer's 838 00:37:45,810 --> 00:37:43,660 block the hell were the stars they don't 839 00:37:47,610 --> 00:37:45,820 help at all I mean really i'm supposed 840 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:47,620 to get your predictions from points of 841 00:37:53,130 --> 00:37:50,170 lights in the sky still it beats working 842 00:38:14,190 --> 00:37:53,140 for a living my lucky numbers are those 843 00:38:18,430 --> 00:38:16,539 astronomy cast who takes a fact space 844 00:38:20,319 --> 00:38:18,440 journey through the cosmos as it offers 845 00:38:22,990 --> 00:38:20,329 listeners weekly discussions on 846 00:38:25,900 --> 00:38:23,000 astronomical topics ranging from planets 847 00:38:28,359 --> 00:38:25,910 to cosmology hosted by Fraser Cain of 848 00:38:29,230 --> 00:38:28,369 Universe Today and myself dr. Pamela gay 849 00:38:31,900 --> 00:38:29,240 of southern illinois university 850 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:31,910 edwardsville this show brings the 851 00:38:36,190 --> 00:38:33,770 questions of an avid astronomy lover 852 00:38:38,289 --> 00:38:36,200 directly to an astronomer together 853 00:38:39,819 --> 00:38:38,299 Fraser and I explore what is known and 854 00:38:42,579 --> 00:38:39,829 being discovered about the universe 855 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:42,589 around us join us each week as we take a 856 00:38:54,190 --> 00:38:44,690 fax space journey through the cosmos at 857 00:38:56,380 --> 00:38:54,200 astronomy cast calm welcome to a week in 858 00:38:58,780 --> 00:38:56,390 science from arias bringing you the 859 00:39:00,640 --> 00:38:58,790 science you need to know it's hard to 860 00:39:02,980 --> 00:39:00,650 beat the crisp refreshing taste of an 861 00:39:05,260 --> 00:39:02,990 ice-cold beer but behind the amber haze 862 00:39:10,570 --> 00:39:05,270 and frothing fears beer is also 863 00:39:15,410 --> 00:39:13,640 we first discovered beer about 8,000 864 00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:15,420 years ago in ancient egypt and ancient 865 00:39:20,210 --> 00:39:17,970 sumer the world's first brewers mixed 866 00:39:22,910 --> 00:39:20,220 bread germinated grain and water in 867 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:22,920 ceramic jars the yeast inside the bread 868 00:39:28,700 --> 00:39:24,330 fermented the sugars in the grain 869 00:39:30,740 --> 00:39:28,710 producing alcohol and tada beer almost 870 00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:30,750 everyone drank it at the time as it was 871 00:39:34,610 --> 00:39:33,090 high in carbohydrates in protein but was 872 00:39:36,530 --> 00:39:34,620 also safer to drink than the 873 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:36,540 contaminated water making it the 874 00:39:42,530 --> 00:39:40,410 ultimate food source today there are 875 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:42,540 thousands of brands of beer and dozens 876 00:39:46,820 --> 00:39:44,370 of different styles but there are really 877 00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:46,830 only two main types of beer ales and 878 00:39:50,990 --> 00:39:48,810 lagers the difference of rising from the 879 00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:51,000 type of yeast used ao's use a top 880 00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:52,650 fermenting yeast which operates at a 881 00:39:56,840 --> 00:39:54,570 higher temperature this means that 882 00:39:59,120 --> 00:39:56,850 fermentation produces not only alcohol 883 00:40:01,040 --> 00:39:59,130 but various other aroma molecules that 884 00:40:03,470 --> 00:40:01,050 give rise to fruity and floral flavors 885 00:40:05,270 --> 00:40:03,480 lagers on the other hand use bottom 886 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:05,280 fermenting yeast which operates at a 887 00:40:09,170 --> 00:40:07,290 lower temperature this means that no 888 00:40:11,270 --> 00:40:09,180 extra aroma molecules are produced 889 00:40:14,390 --> 00:40:11,280 making the beer a crisp and clear 890 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:14,400 expression of the grain and now for fast 891 00:40:19,310 --> 00:40:15,690 facts about australia's favourite 892 00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:19,320 beverage ancient Greeks and Romans 893 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:21,570 didn't really appreciate the beauty of 894 00:40:26,300 --> 00:40:23,850 beer they thought was most useful to 895 00:40:28,340 --> 00:40:26,310 soften ivory to make jewelry beer is a 896 00:40:30,770 --> 00:40:28,350 diuretic that causes us to lose fluids 897 00:40:33,260 --> 00:40:30,780 very quickly every bottle of beer you 898 00:40:36,500 --> 00:40:33,270 drink produces about half a liter of 899 00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:36,510 urine per standard drink beer contains 900 00:40:40,460 --> 00:40:38,370 more vitamins and minerals than wine and 901 00:40:42,230 --> 00:40:40,470 ancient Egyptians thought that drinking 902 00:40:44,690 --> 00:40:42,240 beer and getting drunked help them 903 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:44,700 become closer with the gods that's it 904 00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:46,770 for this week in science for more 905 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:48,930 information on beer go to the RAS 906 00:40:55,730 --> 00:40:53,370 website riaa us a you follow us on 907 00:40:57,950 --> 00:40:55,740 twitter at rars and like us on Facebook 908 00:41:01,920 --> 00:40:57,960 I'm na be young and we'll catch you next 909 00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:04,720 virtual skeptics is a weekly web show in 910 00:41:08,829 --> 00:41:06,530 which we discuss the latest news in 911 00:41:10,299 --> 00:41:08,839 skepticism whether it's a new case of 912 00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:10,309 spontaneous human combustion a 913 00:41:14,740 --> 00:41:12,530 conspiracy theory the latest update on 914 00:41:16,390 --> 00:41:14,750 the upcoming robot apocalypse tech news 915 00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:16,400 for skeptics are the latest wacky 916 00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:18,890 religious claim we cover it all we 917 00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:21,290 record the show live as a Google+ on-air 918 00:41:25,750 --> 00:41:23,930 hang out so join us and our host Brian 919 00:41:27,849 --> 00:41:25,760 Gregory for an hour of mostly 920 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:27,859 intelligent talk every wednesday at 921 00:41:33,790 --> 00:41:30,770 eight pm eastern US time watch us at 922 00:41:36,430 --> 00:41:33,800 virtual skeptics calm and participate in 923 00:41:39,370 --> 00:41:36,440 the show on our hashtag virtual skeptics 924 00:41:50,500 --> 00:41:39,380 the virtual skeptics it's like meet the 925 00:41:52,450 --> 00:41:50,510 press but with chupacabras well here i 926 00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:52,460 am at skeptics in the pub in sydney but 927 00:41:56,589 --> 00:41:53,930 you know what folks this is not the only 928 00:41:59,559 --> 00:41:56,599 skeptical event in sydney add to do with 929 00:42:02,339 --> 00:41:59,569 drinking where's my where's my dinner no 930 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:02,349 no it's not here yet who do we have here 931 00:42:08,140 --> 00:42:05,210 Jane welcome hello Jane you're telling 932 00:42:09,789 --> 00:42:08,150 me about critical drinking how critical 933 00:42:12,099 --> 00:42:09,799 drinking is just an informal meet up in 934 00:42:14,950 --> 00:42:12,109 Newtown which we've been running I think 935 00:42:19,059 --> 00:42:14,960 we had at our inaugural event Oh last 936 00:42:22,450 --> 00:42:19,069 month and it's just a an informal meet 937 00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:22,460 up for people to get together and have a 938 00:42:26,859 --> 00:42:25,490 good argument under fair terms you don't 939 00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:26,869 need you don't need a they don't need a 940 00:42:30,910 --> 00:42:28,490 special excuse for people have a good 941 00:42:33,599 --> 00:42:30,920 argument these days Adobe tell me more 942 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:33,609 about it where do you meet and win ah 943 00:42:38,890 --> 00:42:36,410 where a Facebook meetup groups so we 944 00:42:41,770 --> 00:42:38,900 tend to roam around a bit but if you 945 00:42:43,030 --> 00:42:41,780 don't have a certain pub no no we roam 946 00:42:45,700 --> 00:42:43,040 around Keynes street it's all done by 947 00:42:49,030 --> 00:42:45,710 consensus so if you joined the group 948 00:42:50,980 --> 00:42:49,040 reaches either put up a vote or discuss 949 00:42:52,930 --> 00:42:50,990 there's a lot of good pubs around King 950 00:42:54,620 --> 00:42:52,940 Street i must say that hang up and dump 951 00:42:58,039 --> 00:42:54,630 it I'm pick one it's 952 00:42:59,509 --> 00:42:58,049 man hello fern hi you can't just pick 953 00:43:01,039 --> 00:42:59,519 one pub on King Street that's why 954 00:43:02,539 --> 00:43:01,049 there's that's why we move around 955 00:43:05,990 --> 00:43:02,549 because everyone wants to go to a 956 00:43:08,089 --> 00:43:06,000 different pub every month I just did the 957 00:43:11,509 --> 00:43:08,099 cardinal sin folks I nearly spilled your 958 00:43:13,609 --> 00:43:11,519 drink I'm sorry you saved it if people 959 00:43:15,259 --> 00:43:13,619 around the the newtown area the inner 960 00:43:18,410 --> 00:43:15,269 west of Sydney which is not far from 961 00:43:19,609 --> 00:43:18,420 where I live what's what's the deal 962 00:43:21,890 --> 00:43:19,619 where should they go to find out more 963 00:43:23,650 --> 00:43:21,900 about critically drinking adds a 964 00:43:26,359 --> 00:43:23,660 facebook meet up at the moment we all 965 00:43:27,890 --> 00:43:26,369 we're thinking about putting our proper 966 00:43:29,839 --> 00:43:27,900 meet up meet up up but at the moment 967 00:43:31,819 --> 00:43:29,849 it's a Facebook group if it works 968 00:43:35,240 --> 00:43:31,829 drinkin Sydney research for us you'll 969 00:43:36,799 --> 00:43:35,250 find us critical drinkers Sydney I see 970 00:43:38,509 --> 00:43:36,809 so that doesn't mean you go somewhere 971 00:43:42,950 --> 00:43:38,519 and taste beers and think could be 972 00:43:46,339 --> 00:43:42,960 better no no we do that actually we do a 973 00:43:47,839 --> 00:43:46,349 bit of that we were kind of i'm sure a 974 00:43:49,549 --> 00:43:47,849 lot of skeptics have this problem but we 975 00:43:52,970 --> 00:43:49,559 had an issue with using the word 976 00:43:54,769 --> 00:43:52,980 skeptics trying to get people to come to 977 00:43:56,660 --> 00:43:54,779 it who are quite a student in science 978 00:43:59,420 --> 00:43:56,670 but obviously that it's the word has 979 00:44:02,420 --> 00:43:59,430 become a prefix for climate Holocaust or 980 00:44:04,430 --> 00:44:02,430 vaccine remote recently isn't this a sad 981 00:44:05,870 --> 00:44:04,440 situation you know it's a situation that 982 00:44:07,519 --> 00:44:05,880 we and Australian skeptics have been 983 00:44:09,049 --> 00:44:07,529 dealing with for many years because pot 984 00:44:11,870 --> 00:44:09,059 in the popular imagination the word 985 00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:11,880 skeptic means they say or a demand yeah 986 00:44:16,430 --> 00:44:14,490 and we know that no it really someone 987 00:44:19,970 --> 00:44:16,440 who carefully carefully evaluate so 988 00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:19,980 evidence critical is good although it 989 00:44:26,779 --> 00:44:22,890 sounds a bit critical what are the 990 00:44:29,450 --> 00:44:26,789 drinkers and I think I think you give 991 00:44:31,309 --> 00:44:29,460 them you've come up with a good question 992 00:44:33,230 --> 00:44:31,319 for tonight what is another term which 993 00:44:35,930 --> 00:44:33,240 would might be more appealing than 994 00:44:37,249 --> 00:44:35,940 skeptic uh well we don't have the 995 00:44:39,769 --> 00:44:37,259 answers we're going with critical 996 00:44:41,900 --> 00:44:39,779 drinkers but yeah you have you've come 997 00:44:44,599 --> 00:44:41,910 up with something at least yeah yeah we 998 00:44:46,339 --> 00:44:44,609 just kind of felt that we had to come up 999 00:44:48,950 --> 00:44:46,349 with something that the really the 1000 00:44:51,740 --> 00:44:48,960 catalyst was the vaccine skeptics we 1001 00:44:53,599 --> 00:44:51,750 thought we that's just I think for me 1002 00:44:56,150 --> 00:44:53,609 when I hope you give up at that point I 1003 00:44:58,220 --> 00:44:56,160 think well when I heard people saying a 1004 00:45:00,109 --> 00:44:58,230 retirement chain skip bo even before 1005 00:45:01,940 --> 00:45:00,119 then the moon landing skeptics no it's 1006 00:45:04,260 --> 00:45:01,950 just hit desking ringing up radio 1007 00:45:07,470 --> 00:45:04,270 stations and say what's not us you 1008 00:45:09,150 --> 00:45:07,480 no I mean where it's a small informal 1009 00:45:11,310 --> 00:45:09,160 group that's just started so we don't 1010 00:45:12,780 --> 00:45:11,320 have your rebranding issues with just we 1011 00:45:14,220 --> 00:45:12,790 can just randomly change our name we're 1012 00:45:16,890 --> 00:45:14,230 basically a group of people that meet at 1013 00:45:18,450 --> 00:45:16,900 the pub so all the freedom folks the 1014 00:45:20,370 --> 00:45:18,460 freedoms it will I'm glad you've 1015 00:45:21,690 --> 00:45:20,380 randomly decided to come to skeptics in 1016 00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:21,700 the pub tonight it looks like it's gonna 1017 00:45:24,180 --> 00:45:23,050 be or they're setting up the screen as 1018 00:45:26,780 --> 00:45:24,190 we speak it looks like it's going to be 1019 00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:26,790 an interesting talk all about mosquitoes 1020 00:45:32,550 --> 00:45:31,330 I'm looking forward to it I'm I've got a 1021 00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:32,560 bit of a side bet that there's going to 1022 00:45:38,190 --> 00:45:36,370 be a Gary Larson cartoon in there you 1023 00:45:40,260 --> 00:45:38,200 might you might be on a good on a winner 1024 00:45:42,240 --> 00:45:40,270 then you might be on a winner well 1025 00:45:44,550 --> 00:45:42,250 thanks ladies for letting us know about 1026 00:45:46,410 --> 00:45:44,560 critically drinking and it sounds like 1027 00:45:49,020 --> 00:45:46,420 something I might even pop along to do 1028 00:45:55,500 --> 00:45:49,030 have only for research reasons of course 1029 00:45:59,109 --> 00:45:55,510 strictly for research the poor things 1030 00:46:03,039 --> 00:46:01,660 toward the record we can have Kenley 1031 00:46:04,779 --> 00:46:03,049 lather as you mentioned earlier go 1032 00:46:06,609 --> 00:46:04,789 around here sounds of the australian pub 1033 00:46:09,819 --> 00:46:06,619 ladies and gentlemen greyhound racing on 1034 00:46:12,370 --> 00:46:09,829 the television it still skeptics in the 1035 00:46:14,289 --> 00:46:12,380 pub him down I'm afraid my voices run 1036 00:46:16,720 --> 00:46:14,299 away with the Greyhounds at the moment 1037 00:46:18,670 --> 00:46:16,730 the sound of this happens at these have 1038 00:46:21,279 --> 00:46:18,680 been some with Joe alabaster hello Joe 1039 00:46:23,230 --> 00:46:21,289 hello Richard how are you today well I'm 1040 00:46:26,170 --> 00:46:23,240 I'm apart from my voice running away 1041 00:46:28,059 --> 00:46:26,180 with me Hans I'm doing okay ah thank you 1042 00:46:30,220 --> 00:46:28,069 very much for all your help lately with 1043 00:46:33,279 --> 00:46:30,230 the skeptic zone now you you've 1044 00:46:35,910 --> 00:46:33,289 catalyzed virtually every episode of the 1045 00:46:38,950 --> 00:46:35,920 skeptic zone you must have been a 1046 00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:38,960 terrible experience pretty highly 1047 00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:41,690 traumatic guess it was actually quite 1048 00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:43,970 interesting I could sort of see a few 1049 00:46:48,190 --> 00:46:45,890 trends developing who was doing guest 1050 00:46:50,829 --> 00:46:48,200 segments what sort of interviews were 1051 00:46:52,269 --> 00:46:50,839 being done I was yeah I think you 1052 00:46:53,470 --> 00:46:52,279 mentioned to me when you're cataloging 1053 00:46:55,809 --> 00:46:53,480 all the episodes you could see when 1054 00:46:58,870 --> 00:46:55,819 Maynard was a guest and then before long 1055 00:47:01,720 --> 00:46:58,880 he started disease he's a interviews and 1056 00:47:03,940 --> 00:47:01,730 reports yeah pretty much yeah very solid 1057 00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:03,950 appearances after an initial couple of 1058 00:47:08,620 --> 00:47:06,410 interviews you've definitely around it's 1059 00:47:10,479 --> 00:47:08,630 the main odd face oh so lucky we are to 1060 00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:10,489 have him to now here's tonight's 1061 00:47:17,380 --> 00:47:13,249 question which is uh I was asking 1062 00:47:20,229 --> 00:47:17,390 earlier before my voice run away is the 1063 00:47:21,880 --> 00:47:20,239 word skeptic the word skeptic it's got 1064 00:47:23,620 --> 00:47:21,890 lots of baggage II will eat up so you 1065 00:47:25,870 --> 00:47:23,630 don't think of climate change skeptics 1066 00:47:28,210 --> 00:47:25,880 or moon landing skeptics vaccination 1067 00:47:30,249 --> 00:47:28,220 skeptics indeed do you think do you 1068 00:47:33,029 --> 00:47:30,259 think that is a very negative negative 1069 00:47:37,059 --> 00:47:33,039 thing for us is it hard to fight us I 1070 00:47:38,739 --> 00:47:37,069 think it can be but something I found 1071 00:47:41,739 --> 00:47:38,749 actually when I was on my way home from 1072 00:47:44,229 --> 00:47:41,749 the skeptics dinner last weekend I was 1073 00:47:46,420 --> 00:47:44,239 chatting to a taxi driver who was asking 1074 00:47:49,450 --> 00:47:46,430 how my night had been worried being etc 1075 00:47:51,549 --> 00:47:49,460 and I mentioned that I'd been to an 1076 00:47:53,589 --> 00:47:51,559 Australian skeptics dinner and he said 1077 00:47:55,210 --> 00:47:53,599 what sort of skeptics what do you deal 1078 00:47:58,059 --> 00:47:55,220 with um you know do you deal with 1079 00:47:59,710 --> 00:47:58,069 conspiracy theories is that yeah that's 1080 00:48:02,920 --> 00:47:59,720 one of the things that we talk about of 1081 00:48:05,349 --> 00:48:02,930 you know generally looking at it with 1082 00:48:08,010 --> 00:48:05,359 the sceptical iron generally debunking 1083 00:48:10,220 --> 00:48:08,020 these things rather than believing in 1084 00:48:12,570 --> 00:48:10,230 led to actually a decent conversation 1085 00:48:15,030 --> 00:48:12,580 ended up talking about sort of 1086 00:48:17,730 --> 00:48:15,040 scientific skepticism as far as the 1087 00:48:21,450 --> 00:48:17,740 medical field and you know what was 1088 00:48:25,130 --> 00:48:21,460 evidence base what wasn't so what I do 1089 00:48:29,420 --> 00:48:25,140 get somewhat frustrated seeing's people 1090 00:48:32,130 --> 00:48:29,430 take the name skeptic herbs I'm not sure 1091 00:48:34,190 --> 00:48:32,140 necessarily our scientific skeptics it 1092 00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:34,200 does lead to some decent discussions 1093 00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:36,970 it's an interesting angle that's an 1094 00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:40,570 interesting angle because i guess i can 1095 00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:42,850 i can identify that when you say you're 1096 00:48:47,190 --> 00:48:45,490 a skeptic I've had some more 1097 00:48:49,980 --> 00:48:47,200 conversations where people completely 1098 00:48:52,410 --> 00:48:49,990 don't get it even after you explained it 1099 00:48:56,250 --> 00:48:52,420 to me explain it to the man and i 1100 00:48:59,010 --> 00:48:56,260 recently had a conversation woman who 1101 00:49:02,160 --> 00:48:59,020 was emptying I've been apparently what's 1102 00:49:03,570 --> 00:49:02,170 going on over there sooo when I said 1103 00:49:06,570 --> 00:49:03,580 there are skeptical convention she 1104 00:49:08,550 --> 00:49:06,580 looked absolutely gobsmacked Tintin what 1105 00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:08,560 do you do on a skeptics convention to 1106 00:49:13,020 --> 00:49:10,210 sit around saying I don't believe in 1107 00:49:14,870 --> 00:49:13,030 stock still that perception up yeah I've 1108 00:49:17,790 --> 00:49:14,880 had a little bit of that actually um 1109 00:49:21,030 --> 00:49:17,800 from a friend that I was speaking to he 1110 00:49:22,470 --> 00:49:21,040 was under the impression that basically 1111 00:49:26,370 --> 00:49:22,480 we got together we did a whole lot of 1112 00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:26,380 groupthink it was analogous almost to a 1113 00:49:31,560 --> 00:49:29,050 religion or a church service where we 1114 00:49:34,260 --> 00:49:31,570 all agree a firm with each other thing 1115 00:49:37,350 --> 00:49:34,270 and panicked other on the back and I 1116 00:49:40,650 --> 00:49:37,360 wasn't actually able to explain to him 1117 00:49:43,020 --> 00:49:40,660 um well some of the disagreements that 1118 00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:43,030 happy people yeah particularly the last 1119 00:49:49,830 --> 00:49:47,170 convention vet yeah um cuz we do this er 1120 00:49:52,980 --> 00:49:49,840 yes of course and that is valuable I 1121 00:49:54,570 --> 00:49:52,990 think yeah I know that well thank you 1122 00:49:56,940 --> 00:49:54,580 for your insights Joe that's okay 1123 00:50:00,210 --> 00:49:56,950 anytime next time I have a big project 1124 00:50:06,810 --> 00:50:00,220 like cataloguing the entire skeptics 1125 00:50:09,870 --> 00:50:06,820 oh yuneisia fantastic thank you it's the 1126 00:50:12,570 --> 00:50:09,880 trots it's the the harness racing on the 1127 00:50:15,180 --> 00:50:12,580 TV now what an interesting pub this is 1128 00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:15,190 hello hello Richard hello good to see 1129 00:50:19,050 --> 00:50:16,570 you here tonight now you're down from 1130 00:50:21,180 --> 00:50:19,060 the mountains yes I live in Katoomba not 1131 00:50:24,150 --> 00:50:21,190 far from joe alabaster me not far at all 1132 00:50:25,500 --> 00:50:24,160 you are here tonight to enjoy skeptics 1133 00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:25,510 in the pub of course but also you were 1134 00:50:29,849 --> 00:50:28,090 telling us about a new group new ish no 1135 00:50:32,430 --> 00:50:29,859 not new at all actually we've existed 1136 00:50:35,030 --> 00:50:32,440 for at least 10 years I think you are 1137 00:50:37,109 --> 00:50:35,040 here to tell you about an old group yeah 1138 00:50:39,990 --> 00:50:37,119 tell me about this group don't tell the 1139 00:50:41,370 --> 00:50:40,000 listeners do oh hello and the group I 1140 00:50:43,980 --> 00:50:41,380 want to tell you about is the blackheath 1141 00:50:46,170 --> 00:50:43,990 philosophy forum which is of course held 1142 00:50:49,260 --> 00:50:46,180 in Blackheath which is just a little bit 1143 00:50:51,450 --> 00:50:49,270 west of katoomba where's timeline on the 1144 00:50:54,240 --> 00:50:51,460 train a lot of venue is across the road 1145 00:50:57,060 --> 00:50:54,250 from the train station so it's pretty 1146 00:50:58,560 --> 00:50:57,070 easy to get there the first talk is on 1147 00:51:00,839 --> 00:50:58,570 the 19th of April that's Easter Saturday 1148 00:51:02,910 --> 00:51:00,849 and it they all the talks start at four 1149 00:51:05,910 --> 00:51:02,920 o'clock and they'll go on fortnightly 1150 00:51:08,370 --> 00:51:05,920 until early august when our last walk is 1151 00:51:10,020 --> 00:51:08,380 actually a talk that we're doing in 1152 00:51:12,300 --> 00:51:10,030 conjunction with the blackheath history 1153 00:51:14,849 --> 00:51:12,310 forum which they run their talks after 1154 00:51:17,190 --> 00:51:14,859 we run out so there's a sort of late 1155 00:51:19,620 --> 00:51:17,200 winter and as a early winter it's a 1156 00:51:21,780 --> 00:51:19,630 fantastic fantastic group of speakers 1157 00:51:24,570 --> 00:51:21,790 and topics we've got lined up for this 1158 00:51:28,050 --> 00:51:24,580 year and checks out we're on we have a 1159 00:51:29,370 --> 00:51:28,060 website we're also on Facebook um do do 1160 00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:29,380 join in the discussion on Facebook 1161 00:51:32,910 --> 00:51:31,210 that'll be fun so you have a website and 1162 00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:32,920 the Facebook yes what's the website 1163 00:51:40,290 --> 00:51:35,770 what's your own dinner she's just full 1164 00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:40,300 on I i I'm such a facebook addict and 1165 00:51:43,740 --> 00:51:42,130 and I do moderate the facebook page so I 1166 00:51:46,170 --> 00:51:43,750 don't worry I'm pretty stuck in there 1167 00:51:48,870 --> 00:51:46,180 and so if I go to Facebook word war type 1168 00:51:50,970 --> 00:51:48,880 in Blackheath philosophy for him yeah 1169 00:51:53,790 --> 00:51:50,980 right that's pretty easy blackheath 1170 00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:53,800 philosophy forum sounds like a good 1171 00:51:58,220 --> 00:51:56,650 event to go to excuse my voice it always 1172 00:52:00,050 --> 00:51:58,230 lose it at these pop 19 1173 00:52:04,010 --> 00:52:00,060 is the r you know the rumor they're so 1174 00:52:09,230 --> 00:52:04,020 loud now the discussion tonight is the 1175 00:52:11,720 --> 00:52:09,240 word skeptic the term skeptic it can we 1176 00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:11,730 know what it means yes we know but to 1177 00:52:18,260 --> 00:52:15,410 the great unwashed public domainpublic 1178 00:52:21,530 --> 00:52:18,270 it has all sorts of meanings many people 1179 00:52:23,720 --> 00:52:21,540 think it means cynicism I do they do 1180 00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:23,730 could we do better in marketing or could 1181 00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:26,850 we do better in word or of that the moon 1182 00:52:30,109 --> 00:52:28,530 landing skeptics and the climate change 1183 00:52:33,170 --> 00:52:30,119 skeptics and the skeptical skeptics of 1184 00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:33,180 the skeptics of the skeptics sumter some 1185 00:52:40,340 --> 00:52:36,890 we have we let our guard down what is he 1186 00:52:41,750 --> 00:52:40,350 I'm not sure how we can better define 1187 00:52:44,510 --> 00:52:41,760 the word or if we could use a different 1188 00:52:48,470 --> 00:52:44,520 word but I want to bring it back to my 1189 00:52:50,420 --> 00:52:48,480 connection to the philosophy forum to 1190 00:52:52,790 --> 00:52:50,430 say that that then the reason that I 1191 00:52:54,170 --> 00:52:52,800 that I wanted to tell the skeptic zone 1192 00:52:55,820 --> 00:52:54,180 listeners about the philosophy form is I 1193 00:52:58,370 --> 00:52:55,830 think the two things are so well 1194 00:53:01,580 --> 00:52:58,380 intertwined and that skepticism is 1195 00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:01,590 actually philosophical activism hmm so 1196 00:53:05,359 --> 00:53:03,690 it's it's it's taking philosophical 1197 00:53:08,410 --> 00:53:05,369 principles of critical thinking and 1198 00:53:10,730 --> 00:53:08,420 applying them to real world things we're 1199 00:53:14,630 --> 00:53:10,740 all skeptics if you try to help people 1200 00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:14,640 they try to they try to debunk you know 1201 00:53:21,349 --> 00:53:17,490 they share medical cures for example and 1202 00:53:24,260 --> 00:53:21,359 that uses philosophical tools right are 1203 00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:24,270 that we we to be honest we'd probably 1204 00:53:32,510 --> 00:53:28,890 prefer the term investigate her journey 1205 00:53:35,390 --> 00:53:32,520 I know Joe we do end up yes and do end 1206 00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:35,400 up strangely enough debunking many 1207 00:53:40,700 --> 00:53:39,090 things as we go along yes um but there's 1208 00:53:42,590 --> 00:53:40,710 the discussion for another time yes 1209 00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:42,600 perhaps we shouldn't we should presume 1210 00:53:48,740 --> 00:53:46,890 the answer in the best so what do you 1211 00:53:50,630 --> 00:53:48,750 think of our speech our speaker tonight 1212 00:53:53,450 --> 00:53:50,640 was all about mosquito oh it's fantastic 1213 00:53:55,940 --> 00:53:53,460 what's it look good and yes I did leave 1214 00:53:57,530 --> 00:53:55,950 it feeling a bit itchy I've always 1215 00:53:59,120 --> 00:53:57,540 wanted by mosquitoes like me more than 1216 00:54:01,160 --> 00:53:59,130 they like my partner my partner loves 1217 00:54:03,290 --> 00:54:01,170 that they like me more because they keep 1218 00:54:04,790 --> 00:54:03,300 away from his note but we didn't get an 1219 00:54:06,720 --> 00:54:04,800 answer tonight she he said well there 1220 00:54:08,430 --> 00:54:06,730 are three four hundred chemicals that 1221 00:54:10,620 --> 00:54:08,440 and make up what's on our skin and we 1222 00:54:12,090 --> 00:54:10,630 just can't tell why don't we feel more 1223 00:54:14,820 --> 00:54:12,100 attracted but what I found interesting 1224 00:54:16,109 --> 00:54:14,830 was he confirmed that yes mosquitoes do 1225 00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:16,119 find some people who were attractive 1226 00:54:21,030 --> 00:54:18,130 than others I always thought that was an 1227 00:54:22,950 --> 00:54:21,040 old me oh okay I know it's not because I 1228 00:54:26,370 --> 00:54:22,960 come out with 20 bucks and my partner 1229 00:54:27,450 --> 00:54:26,380 has none it's completely advent it's 1230 00:54:29,940 --> 00:54:27,460 just the sort of things you can learn 1231 00:54:48,940 --> 00:54:29,950 skeptics in the pub I recommend it 1232 00:54:54,020 --> 00:54:51,860 thank you for listening to the skeptic 1233 00:54:56,510 --> 00:54:54,030 zone podcast and thank you for those 1234 00:54:59,240 --> 00:54:56,520 people who contribute less than a dollar 1235 00:55:04,340 --> 00:54:59,250 a week of course via paypal and you can 1236 00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:04,350 do that at ww skeptic zone TV very much 1237 00:55:08,270 --> 00:55:06,570 looking forward to the skeptical events 1238 00:55:10,310 --> 00:55:08,280 coming up later in the year tam of 1239 00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:10,320 course the amazing meeting in Las Vegas 1240 00:55:14,450 --> 00:55:12,330 well I'll be great to see James Randi 1241 00:55:16,070 --> 00:55:14,460 haven't seen James Randi for almost a 1242 00:55:19,190 --> 00:55:16,080 year it's really nice to catch up with 1243 00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:19,200 him and we are normally find a few 1244 00:55:25,250 --> 00:55:21,450 minutes to have a quiet chat it's really 1245 00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:25,260 great and later in the year indeed the 1246 00:55:30,650 --> 00:55:28,890 28th to the 30th of November in Sydney 1247 00:55:32,870 --> 00:55:30,660 we have the Australian skeptics national 1248 00:55:35,510 --> 00:55:32,880 convention with the skeptics guide to 1249 00:55:38,240 --> 00:55:35,520 the universe george arab dick smith dr. 1250 00:55:40,130 --> 00:55:38,250 carlos and risky dr. rachel dunlop will 1251 00:55:43,330 --> 00:55:40,140 be speaking in so many more i can't even 1252 00:55:47,330 --> 00:55:43,340 talk about it get your tickets at ww 1253 00:55:50,930 --> 00:55:47,340 skeptics calm a you prostate cancer 1254 00:55:55,220 --> 00:55:50,940 indeed and homeopathy I'm sorry yes 1255 00:55:57,220 --> 00:55:55,230 still still not happy about that hmm but 1256 00:56:01,100 --> 00:55:57,230 for this week this is Richard Saunders 1257 00:56:03,710 --> 00:56:01,110 signing off I mean how dare you mention 1258 00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:03,720 prostate cancer in regards to sugar 1259 00:56:12,530 --> 00:56:05,850 water and this is Richard Saunders 1260 00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:12,540 signing off from Sydney Australia you've 1261 00:56:20,510 --> 00:56:15,930 been listening to the skeptic zone visit 1262 00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:20,520 our website at www skeptics on TV the